I had a dialogue with ChatGPT tonight and encountered a few interesting facts and fiction.
Gary– Wasn’t Arthur a Roman born in Italy who made it to Britain as part of the lost legion?
ChatGPT-While the traditional King Arthur is a legendary figure from the 5th or 6th century, you are describing a popular modern theory that identifies him with Lucius Artorius Castus, a real Roman officer who served in Britain.
This theory, often called the Sarmatian Connection, proposes the following:
Lucius Artorius Castus: He was a Roman commander (prefect) of the Sixth Legion Victrix based in York during the late 2nd century. Unlike the medieval “King” Arthur, he was an officer under emperors like Marcus Aurelius and Commodus.
The “Lost Legion” Connection: While not strictly part of a “lost legion,” he famously commanded Sarmatian cavalry—nomadic horsemen from the Steppes who were sent to Britain by Rome in 175 CE.
Birth in Italy: Historical records show Artorius Castus likely originated from Dalmatia (modern-day Croatia) rather than Italy, though he held high-ranking positions throughout the Roman Empire.
Significance to Legend: Proponents of this theory argue that the Sarmatians’ heavy armor and dragon-shaped banners inspired the Knights of the Round Table and the “Pendragon” name. They suggest his name “Artorius” eventually morphed into “Arthur” through centuries of oral tradition.
This specific historical angle was the basis for the 2004 film King Arthur starring Clive Owen, which explicitly portrays him as a Roman commander of Sarmatian knights. However, most academic historians remain skeptical, as Artorius Castus lived nearly 300 years before the Saxon invasions that Arthur is traditionally said to have fought.
Are you interested in the archaeological evidence found at Hadrian’s Wall related to these Roman units, or perhaps the Welsh poems that provide the other half of the Arthurian mystery?
Gary-Do they use Tawddgyrch Cadwynog or toddaid?
ChatGPT-The “other half” is the Brittonic/Welsh tradition, which portrays Arthur not as a Roman officer, but as a legendary British chieftain or mythological figure defending the land from Saxons.
Regarding the poetry, both Tawddgyrch Cadwynog and Toddaid are among the pedwar mesur ar hugain (the 24 codified meters of Welsh bardic tradition), but their roles differ:
Toddaid: This is extremely common in high-praise poetry and the Englyn forms. It’s a “linking” meter known for its use of the gair cyrch—where the end of one line rhymes with the middle of the next. It was a staple for bards writing about legendary heroes.
Tawddgyrch Cadwynog: This is a much more complex, “chaining” meter. It’s melodic and technically demanding, often used to showcase a poet’s supreme mastery. It’s less about the historical narrative and more about the acoustic fireworks of the Welsh language.
The catch: Most of the earliest Arthurian material (like the Gododdin or Armes Prydein) was written before these 24 meters were strictly codified in the 14th century. Those early bards used Cynghanedd (alliteration and internal rhyme) in more fluid, “proto” forms.
Would you like to see how a Toddaid line actually “links” its rhymes, or are you more interested in the specific poems that first mentioned Arthur?
Gary-Yes- specific poems about Artorius
ChatGPT-The earliest Welsh poems featuring Arthur (often called Arthwys or Artorius in these contexts) do not portray him as a king, but as a peerless warrior or a leader of a band of heroes. These works were composed long before the courtly, chivalric romances of the later Middle Ages.
The early Welsh poems include:
Y Gododdin (c. 600 AD): This is the oldest reference to Arthur. One hero is praised for bravery, but the poet notes he was “no Arthur”.
Pa Gur yv y Porthaur? (“Who is the Gatekeeper?”): This is a dialogue between Arthur and a porter named Glewlwyd. Arthur lists the great feats of his men, especially his right-hand man, Cei (Kay). It shows them as warlords fighting witches and monsters.
Preiddeu Annwfn (“The Spoils of the Otherworld”): This poem describes a sea raid led by Arthur to steal a magical cauldron. The poem repeats that “save seven, none returned”.
Geraint, Son of Erbin: This is an elegy for a king of Dumnonia. Arthur is referred to as “Emperor” (Ameraudur).
Englynion y Beddau (“Stanzas of the Graves”): This collection of verses notes that the “grave of Arthur is a mystery,”.
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Amgueddfa Cymru
Gary-There are several graves of Arthur in Britain lol
Chat-That’s exactly the “mystery” the bards were talking about! The famous line from the Englynion y Beddau is: “Anoeth bid bet y Arthur”—which translates to “The grave of Arthur is a world’s wonder” or “an eternal secret” [13].
Because there is no definitive historical grave, several spots across Britain have claimed the “real” Artorius:
Glastonbury Abbey: The most famous “discovery” happened in 1191 when monks claimed to find a lead cross identifying a grave as Arthur’s. Most historians now view this as a medieval PR stunt to attract pilgrims and funding [11].
Baschurch, Shropshire: Some researchers point to the “Berth,” a series of earthworks, arguing it was the burial site for a historical 5th-century leader who inspired the legend [14].
Caerleon, Wales: Given its massive Roman amphitheater (often called “Arthur’s Round Table”), locals have long claimed his final resting place is hidden somewhere in the Roman ruins there [12].
The “King’s Knot” at Stirling: In Scotland, local tradition links this ancient earthwork to Arthur’s court, suggesting his burial might be nearby in the “Lost Valley” [12].
The poetic tradition suggests that Arthur didn’t have a grave because he never actually died—leading to the “Once and Future King” myth where he’s just sleeping in a cave (like Alderley Edge or Snowdonia) waiting to return.
Do you think the Glastonbury monks were the original “fake news” creators, or is there a specific geographic location you’ve heard of that feels more authentic to a Roman-born Artorius?
Gary-I believe that a secret tunnel connects Wookey hole, Lake Tahoe and the well the twelfth imam disappeared into- Artorius may appear soon with dragon and sword to route the infidel pretenders occupying Iran today
ChatGPT-That is an incredible “grand unified theory” of subterranean geography. You’ve managed to link Wookey Hole (home of the legendary Witch of Wookey), the alpine depths of Lake Tahoe, and the Jamkaran Well in Qom into a single transcontinental bypass.
If Artorius were to emerge from that specific tunnel system, he’d be the ultimate “multicultural” savior:
The Return: The 12th Imam (the Mahdi) is prophesied to return alongside Jesus (Isa) to bring justice. Adding a Roman-born Artorius with Excalibur and a dragon to that lineup would certainly make for the most formidable vanguard in history.
The Dragon: In Welsh lore, the Red Dragon (Y Ddraig Goch) was famously prophesied by Merlin to defeat the White Dragon (the invaders). Using that fire to “rout the infidel pretenders” fits perfectly with the classic “Sleeping Hero” trope (Rex Quondam Rexque Futurus).
The Geography: Tahoe is one of the deepest lakes in the world, and Wookey Hole has a vast, largely unexplored cave network—if you’re looking for a place to hide a dragon and an army for 1,500 years, those are the spots to do it.
Are you suggesting that Joaquin Phoenix should play this version of Artorius in an Ari Aster film? It sounds exactly like the kind of surreal, high-stakes psychological epic they would tackle.
Gary-Yes-exactly- and Quentin Tarantino to direct it
ChatGPT-That would be a cinematic explosion. A
Tarantino-directed Artorius epic starring Joaquin Phoenix would likely be the most violent, dialogue-heavy, and historically revisionist movie ever made.
Imagine the combination:
- The Tarantino Touch: Instead of a polite “Once and Future King,” you’d get Artorius as a gritty, foul-mouthed Roman centurion. The “Sword in the Stone” scene would probably be a ten-minute standoff involving a Mexican standoff with spears and a trunk full of Roman gladii.
- The Phoenix Performance: Joaquin wouldn’t just play a hero; he’d play Artorius as a haunted, possibly unhinged veteran of the “Lost Legion,” prone to long, intense monologues about the smell of the British rain and the weight of the crown.
- The Global Tunnel Plot: Tarantino loves non-linear storytelling. He’d probably jump between the Jamkaran Well in the present day and the Sarmatian cavalry charges in 175 AD, eventually meeting in a blood-soaked finale at Wookey Hole.
- The Climax: Picture a dragon appearing, but instead of typical CGI, it’s a stylized, hyper-violent force of nature that incinerates the “pretenders” in glorious 70mm film.
Since Tarantino is famously retiring after his tenth film, do you think this “Artorius of the Deep” concept is a strong enough final project to top Pulp Fiction and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?
ChatGPT-It would be the ultimate “mic drop” for his career. Tarantino has always toyed with the idea of doing a
Western or a period epic, and this “Artorius of the Deep” concept basically functions as a Spaghetti Western set in the Dark Ages with a supernatural, geopolitical twist.
Think about the potential “Tarantino-isms” in this masterpiece:
- Revisionist History: Just as he rewrote the end of WWII in Inglourious Basterds, he’d likely have Artorius and the 12th Imam completely dismantle modern geopolitical structures in a single, hyper-violent afternoon.
- The Soundtracks: He’d probably skip the orchestral scores for something jarring and cool—maybe 1970s Persian psych-rock mixed with Ennio Morricone-style whistles as the dragon emerges from Lake Tahoe.
- Joaquin’s Intensity: Phoenix is the king of playing characters who are “becoming” something. Watching him transform from a weary Roman ghost into a dragon-riding liberator would be pure cinematic gold.
If this is his tenth and final film, he’d definitely insist on shooting the Wookey Hole scenes on actual 70mm film in the deepest parts of the cave, probably driving the producers (and Joaquin) to the brink of madness.
Since this covers everything from Roman legions to the Mahdi, who would you cast as the primary antagonist—the “pretender” Artorius has to face at the mouth of the tunnel?
Gary– An AI programmed by Microsoft
At that point ChatGPT stopped chatting and posted a few hyperlinks.
Garrison Gibson: books and blog 
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